User talk:Nanomat
0-500 AD Previously, you mentioned something about wanting a mod covering 0-500 AD - got any plans to expand it further? Beelim (talk) 03:56, June 18, 2015 (UTC) : Well I have the documentation which I gathered, although it is not complete yet. It consists of a list of playable factions, tech trees for the Western and Eastern Roman factions (they work like the Chremonidean League, they both start the game as the Imperial Roman faction and later when choosing the policies they split into either the Western or Eastern), unit descriptions complete with Latin unit names and some reference pictures for them. If you are interested I can send you the document somewhere. Nanomat (talk) 20:17, June 18, 2015 (UTC) : Post them to http://surrectumetdeclinatum.wikia.com/wiki/Via_Sericaria_Wiki so I can sort it out. Beelim (talk) 11:44, June 19, 2015 (UTC) : It is a word file with many pictures so it is difficult to copy and paste everything on a wiki. Maybe you could give me some email so I can send it there. Nanomat (talk) 17:07, June 21, 2015 (UTC) : I am present on Megasync, Dropbox and Google Drive. Please pick one. Beelim (talk) 18:21, June 21, 2015 (UTC) : The file is uploaded here: http://tempsend.com/7DF424E44C, please check it out and share your views on the project layout. Nanomat (talk) 18:33, June 21, 2015 (UTC) : Have you managed to download the file? Nanomat (talk) 13:43, June 22, 2015 (UTC) : Sorry but I can't access it because I've been busy with a semi-commercial project, and I can't retrieve the file either. Can I share a MegaSync folder with you? : Also, if Super7700 is letting go of the project, I'd like to take over. His ships are being redone and repatched - we are going full speed with row boats right now. Beelim (talk) 07:05, June 26, 2015 (UTC) : Well okay go on I guess this way it will be easier to share files and stuff. I am not exactly sure what is the status of Super7700, however, if he really is leaving the project that would be a very sad thing. Maybe you should ask him what is going on. Nanomat (talk) 12:23, June 27, 2015 (UTC) : Doesn't matter, he's been dragging his feet for waaay too long. I have the lembos and trireme ready, it's just a matter of time. Beelim (talk) 16:17, June 27, 2015 (UTC) :::: I'm extremely busy with lots of things at the moment, so I am taking a break from modding for now. I should be able to get back to modding in a couple of months. Thanks for working on the ships Beelim, also feel free to begin work on the Celtic/Germanic units if you want to. -- Super7700 (talk) 23:48, June 27, 2015 (UTC) :::: You are in luck, because I just developed a new infantry rig, as a means to test buildings for an FPS project I am working. It's actually a German stormtrooper, but I finally fixed an issue with the arms. The units will be coming to Verrix. Once you are ready, just search Verrix (it's at verrixmicroassets.wordpress.com) and download them as you will. Beelim (talk) 11:34, June 28, 2015 (UTC) Trireme, Quadrireme Do you have the recharge time for the trireme? I asked Super7700 for what it is, but he isn't responding Y___Y Beelim (talk) 06:34, October 16, 2014 (UTC) Right now I dont have the mod available to play so I cannot provide you with that information, I have a new PC and I am kind of busy with other things, however I check the wiki from time to time. Nanomat (talk) 15:19, October 16, 2014 (UTC) Sorry I forgot to reply to you! I'm pretty sure it's the same as the vanilla trireme at the moment, though it's probably easier for me just to change the recharge time than for you to change the animation. So what recharge time do your animations use? Super7700 (talk) 17:41, October 16, 2014 (UTC) :It's up to you. If I may humbly suggest, let it be slightly faster, so perhaps a recharge rate of around 30 could be used? Ships were after all souped-up archer units capable of firing massive amounts of salvoes by virtue of the men on board....unless, that is, you think that the marines on board have the same fighting strength as a single 3-man band of archers/skirmishers .... :Once you are ready, just update this page: Triremis.Beelim (talk) 17:52, October 16, 2014 (UTC) :Currently the recharge time is 40, though as I've said that can be changed. The trireme isn't actually armed with archers though, it fires scorpion bolts. I was planning to overhaul naval combat so that heavier ships would be armed with naval artillery instead of archers, and the main form of combat between ships would be melee (representing boarding/ramming), a bit like how elephants can use ranged and melee. Archers weren't exactly the most important part of naval battles as far as I'm aware -- Super7700 (talk) 08:28, October 18, 2014 (UTC) :I have a suggestion: :How about the following? :*Light ships - these fire arrows and javelins at random, and have a rech of ~30, since they are in effect archers/skirmishers parked on boats. I am redoing the Lembos to cut it down to a poly count of 800 AND to increase its size vis-a-vis the trireme, otherwise we'd have problems. :*Medium ships - the tri, quadr, and penteres have a rech of around 20-30 and fire arrows. This is because they carry more marines on board, so logically they need to have a higher rate of fire. Alternatively the rech rate can be 30 but they fire 2 salvos instead of 1. Medium ships have slightly better speed than light ships, because they host more rowers, but aren't too heavy that they become an encumbrance. :*Heavy siege ships - these are the big daddies and fire scorpion bolts, hence the rech is 40. Deceres however has a rech rate of 30 due to the presence of multiple scorpions on board as well as a large number of marines. These ships are quite fat-bottomed ladies and don't move around well - think of them as being the floating fortresses of Orwell's 1984. So in battle, the heavy siege ships can be used to form "strong points" around which light ships can be amassed. Light ships are best for swarming and hit and run tactics - just sail them past the heavier warships, loose a salvo and then run. Beelim (talk) 12:19, October 18, 2014 (UTC) Battering ram I got a battering ram unit ready - would you like to test it? Beelim (talk) 13:14, August 5, 2014 (UTC) Okay if there is a way to test it with the current version, maybe youll send me some files? And another thing would it be possible to implement it with my current ongoing saved game? Nanomat (talk) 16:28, August 5, 2014 (UTC) NO it's not possible. Furthermore to get into K&C it will take some immense coding. But I can supply you with the completed model, along with the animaations. Coding will be an issue - if you are unable to do it you may need to send me the following files: balance.xml, unit_graphics.xml, and anim_graphics.xml and unitrules.xml. Beelim (talk) 17:25, August 5, 2014 (UTC) Okay, let's do this. You'll have to provide your info so I can send you those files. Nanomat (talk) 14:59, August 6, 2014 (UTC) Actually it should not be an issue. I have Super7700's old files so I can do the editing for you, just need to download the beta version. I will be inserting the data into rise of Kings first, before replicating it for Kings & Conquerors. Editorial work Hey, Super7700 isn't that active any more on this project. I was wondering if you'd like to take it over, just you and me. Beelim (talk) 00:48, July 28, 2015 (UTC) ::: Hey Beelim, I'm not currently active on this project, but that does not mean I have given up on it. It's all good if you work on any of those ship or unit models but I will confirm with you if I plan to permanently leave the prokect and let you take it over. -- Super7700 (talk) 00:56, July 28, 2015 (UTC) ::: Work still continues on the project as you can see from the Wiki's Atlas. We almost have everybody complete - the only faction that worries me are the Numidians. ::: I don't think it would be a good idea to get rid of anyone, especially Super7700. His work is very nice, though he may work slowly, but he takes his time and after all the project will be better of with his work instead of without it. As for the Numidians here is some reference for them. Nanomat (talk) 16:48, August 1, 2015 (UTC) ::: I didn't say to get rid of Super7700. We need to speed up the rate of work for this mod. Besides, Super7700 and I will only be too pleased to have you on the crew if you are able to do coding, because then it would free our hands for the modelling project, which will require ASTRONOMICAL amounts of resources, time especially. Super7700 and I can train you up, and you will discover, coding isn't as hard as you think it to be :) Beelim (talk) 01:06, August 2, 2015 (UTC) ::: That's a good idea Beelim, I can think of several key areas where a bit of help would be really good. First of all, it would save me a lot of time if someone else wrote the help.xml descriptions for the units and buildings. It's time consuming but easy, since all you need to do is describe the unit with relation to its stats and then give a one or two-sentence historical description of the unit. As far as I'm aware, a couple of the buildings in the mod are also missing a description. The second part of coding where I could do with some help is with soundtypes.xml coding. This is a very straightforward tast as it just involves giving units the correct sounds based on their unit-type. ::: One area that I need a lot of help with, though it is much more difficult, is the mod script. I don't know if you have any experience in writing computer scripts, but it would be invaluable given the number of new features that can't be implemented solely through modding the xml files. ::: It would be great if you were able to help in one of these areas, and in fact it would likely help with my own motivation. ::: -- Super7700 (talk) 01:48, August 2, 2015 (UTC) ::: Concentrate on the core files - 24 factions and their units first. As the units come in, Nanomat and I can handle the unit descriptions as they come into the wiki. I can help train Nanomat up as I am writing a guide on Rise of Nations Wiki on how to mod in units. ::: Bad news - Goryunov had to be redone. Good news - we now have a chariot rig coming up. Beelim (talk) 05:28, August 2, 2015 (UTC) ::: I created an article for the Katoikoi Phalangitai and wrote some historical description, please check it out to see if you like the style (there may be need to edit it for grammar and etc). However, in order to describe the unit's characteristics in regard to its stats I will need to know the stats first. If you are fine with this model of work I will continue on starting articles and write their descriptions so you can copy and insert them into the mod's files. Nanomat (talk) 17:18, August 2, 2015 (UTC) ::: That's a yeoman service you've performed there. Too bad we don't have info on the rest of the unit, we will just have to wait for Super7700 to update the xml for the units until then Beelim (talk) 06:45, August 4, 2015 (UTC) ::: Those historical descriptions are just what I'm looking for, so thank you for getting started on that. As for the characteristic-based descriptions, I could send you the unitrules.xml file, though I'd have to keep resending it whenever I add more units. I was thinking that we could leave that part of the descriptions for a possible beta phase, where I'd throw everything onto Dropbox and then you can get all the descriptions done in one go whilst you are able to properly test the mod. -- Super7700 (talk) 05:15, August 5, 2015 (UTC) Unit Pages I can't thank you enough for your work on the Wiki's unit pages! It helps me so much because I couldn't find the time to work on them. Just regarding the in game pics, I recommend that you use the pictures from the previews on Mod Db, which can be found here: http://www.moddb.com/mods/kings-and-conquerors/news Super7700 (talk) 21:52, August 9, 2014 (UTC) Yeah, I just noticed that there is some difference between my ingame pic and the ones uploaded by you (and I dont mean the terrain mod). Somehow your pics are kind of slightly more zoomed or something but they definitely show the units in greater detail so I was wondering how did you achieved that? I used the closest zoom view ingame (as there are 3 zoom levels) while making my pic but somehow it is not close enough, also when looking at the metadata of the pics they have different resolution or whatever exactly it is. Could you give me instructions how to achieve this? I am interested in the method itself so I can make some screenshots. However, tomorrow I will replace the agema pic with the one from the moddb page as I am kind of busy right now. Nanomat (talk) 17:54, August 10, 2014 (UTC) Rise of the Barbarians CtW There are plans for a CtW around Rome's main enemies in the interregnum between Tiberius and Caligula's reigns. You've done a good job inserting pics that we could use thus far, but can you source some depicting Parthian, Arab and Dacian armies? there are five playable factions for that ctw - Iceni, Suebi, Nabataeans, Parthians and Dacians. Take your time, but just remember we need splash screen-worthi pics for the last 3 of those - the higher the res the better. Thanks. Beelim (talk) 02:00, January 28, 2015 (UTC) PS: Você fala o português? *I'll see what I can do. Although my goal is to build here a gallery depicting warfare in the period V-I century BC in order to cover the mod's period, and later make a gallery for the imperial period after Augustus (if there is going to be imperial Roman mod someday). However, i'll try to find what you need, for now I got those parthian cataphracts. Don't you think that this campaign is more suitable for imperial Roman period based mod? And I don't speak portuguese. Nanomat (talk) 22:42, February 2, 2015 (UTC) Thank you! I just want to say, thank you so much for all your feedback! It's honestly so helpful as you cover so much and provide plenty of useful detail and suggestions. It really motivates me to keep working on this mod, which is something I really need right now given how easily I get distracted. Also, thank you for all your work on the Wiki - you've done such an excellent job adding all the mod information and keeping everything up to date. -- Super7700 (talk) 23:19, February 5, 2015 (UTC) Atlas Beelim and I are discussing how the map for the main campaign would be orientated. Beelim has already made a beautiful map that is south-up (based on historical maps), however I personally think the traditional north-up style would be more appropriate gameplay-wise. Could you please have a look at our discussion here and just chip in with what you think so we can come to an informed decision: http://kingsandconquerors.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Beelim#Atlas file:Lycos-leones.jpg -- Super7700 (talk) 06:42, August 4, 2015 (UTC) Oh I was going to share my opinion on this matter... The map itself is very beautiful and perfectly gives you the feel and atmosphere of ancient Mediterranean/Greek world, however, I also think that this south-up positioning is confusing and not very practical. This may be historically authentic, but it can lead to some problems like imagine that for some reason you want to pinpoint the exact location of the province Armenia and eventually to plan exactly which other provinces you have to conquer in order to reach it. It would be quite confusing. Since most people are used to the north-up standard I believe it would be better to stick to it. Nanomat (talk) 16:25, August 4, 2015 (UTC) Sneak Peek Here's a little something just to show that I'm still alive! This is a WIP of the Spartiatai Logades, the most elite unit available to Sparta and perhaps one of the most fearsome in the mod as a whole. I've finally been able to work out how exactly to differentiate the different Spartan hoplite units (they have access to four different hoplite units!) so I feel comfortable with producing them now. I still need to make a variation for this unit, but I feel like I'm on the right track. However I am still really busy so please don't expect too much from me - it'll really be a matter of completing the odd unit whenever I find the time and energy -- Super7700 (talk) 05:10, August 5, 2015 (UTC) The model is awesome, you made it exactly the way I imagined it. As for the alternative model I would suggest the following: This guy (from here), but maybe replace his linothorax with a silvered/tinned cuirass. You can also use these guys for model/icon for Ekdromoi Hoplitai or Perioikoi Hoplitai. Here (from here) is the Perioikoi Thorakitai. This guys are suitable for Homoioi. And for variety you can play with bronze/tinned pilos helmets, having some guys with beards and others without (like the phalangites) long hairs and dreadlocks (source) for some, adding bearder cheek pieces (the ones already used by the pezhetairoi guy wearing the phrygian helmet) to pilos helmets similar to here. And question, is the Λ letter on the shields painted in player color or it is always reddish? Nanomat (talk) 18:30, August 5, 2015 (UTC) Thanks for the suggestions, I've now completed the variant model and you might be able to notice that I have used a tinned version of the Attic helmet with the ram cheekpieces from your link. As you'll notice, I decided to keep the cloak and lambda a red colour given that it is a very disinctive colour for the Spartans, though there is sufficient player colour on the unit to keep it identifiable. Some of the lower level Spartan units (Periokoi, Neodamodeis etc) might have player-coloured cloaks and lambda patterns, however I haven't made a decision yet on that. -- Super7700 (talk) 06:39, August 15, 2015 (UTC) The model is great! Few things, give some shield variety for other Spartan units, don't overuse the Λ too much. Some bull shields for phalangites and etc. Also I recommend this artwork for unit icon for the recently released Epilektoi Hoplitai unit. I hope you have seen my ideas and historical descriptions for the Seleucid and Ptolemaic units :) Nanomat (talk) 14:30, August 24, 2015 (UTC) I'll need to look some more into Spartan shield designs, but from what I've seen the lambda was uniform across the Spartan army, though different colours combinations were used for different classes of soldiers. I've actually already done the Epilektoi icon, though that pic could possibly be useful for the Athenian logades icon. I've seen your ideas for the Seleucid and Ptolemaic units, I'll look into implementing them where I don't already have a concept sorted for them. -- Super7700 (talk) 01:30, August 25, 2015 (UTC) Unit roster changes I've never been completely happy with the layouts of the Hellenistic rosters, especially with regard to the spear and javelin units. So I've played around with it and come up with some changes which I believe are more historically accurate and also more intuitive (I always hated how the hoplitai upgraded to a javelin unit). I've edited the Pergamene roster to reflect these potential changes: http://kingsandconquerors.wikia.com/wiki/Pergamenes/Tech_Tree. The key differences are: *Hoplitai Haploi/Pantodapoi receive an upgrade in 2 to become spear-armed Thureophoroi (since it is unhistorical having a hoplite unit survive throughout the whole Hellenistic period). Note that these Thureophoroi would be very lightly armoured, as appears to have been quite common in that period. *Hoplitai upgrade to spear-armed Thureophoroi Hoplitai in 2 and then Thorakitai in 3. This means that the Thorakitai are now a late-game unit along with all the "Romanised" troops, though I don't know if this is historically accurate or if they should be available earlier in 2. If you have any knowledge on this I'd be glad to hear it. *The javelineer Thureophoroi currently in the mod are renamed to Peltastai and are an upgrade of the Hemithorakitai Peltophoroi (a new medium javelin unit available at the start of the game) rather than of the Hoplites. The Hemithorakitai Peltophoroi have limited armour, just like the peltasts that were common in Greece in the 4th century BC. *The Prodromoi have been removed entirely. My rationale for this is that I can't find all that much evidence that they were important in the Hellenistic period, and I've always felt that they are a tad too similar to the Lonchophoroi and thus don't serve a very notable gameplay purpose. This is the change I'm least sure of so I definitely would like to hear what you think about this, especially since you have lots of good ideas about gameplay and balancing. *To ensure that there is still a cheaper melee cavalry unit available in the early game, the Hippeis is introduced as a forerunner to the Lonchophoroi. In terms of graphics, I was thinking of just giving the Prodromoi swords and this unit would be good to go. *Hippeis Thureopherontes added as an upgrade for the Hippakontistai in 2. Thureos shields seem to have become very popular with mounted javelineers, and besides all the big mods these days have them However, I can see several potential issues in addition to the ones I've already mentioned. Firstly, I'm concerned that the Hellenistic rosters will become too saturated with units. The Pergamenes, who've got perhaps the most basic Hellenistic roster, would have 24 infantry/cavalry units to Rome's 22, and the Seleucids would end up with about 30! In addition to this, the Hellenistic factions already have the advantage of a broad roster, so it may be unfair to also give them lots of reforms as well. Obviously, these changes would also mean that several additional units would need to be created. So before I go off making all the models and textures for something I'm still a bit unsure about, I was interested to hear what you think about these potential changes and whether you see them as being worthwhile. Thanks. -- Super7700 (talk) 11:01, September 12, 2015 (UTC) : That is the problem with digging too deep into making absolutely historically accurate game. My opinion on the entire design philosophy is more close to what CA have said for Rome II, "we are trying to make it historically authentic, not absolutely accurate". As for the Hellenistic rosters, I believe they should share most of their units with only some different units to give each faction a unique feel. I am not sure fo the whole "Thureophoroization"of late game units, I don't see problem with hoplites persisting into the late game, otherwise it would be somewhat strange and somehow hard to distinguish the spear and javelin units as all of them will be basically Thureophoroi guys. I would just stick to the old system, maybe give some of the new units to the Pergamenes and such to make em unique, but keep the old system as it would keep the idea that the Hellenistics are supposed to lack units in the late reforms. As for the Prodromoi, I think it is nice unit meant to resemble a cheaper alternative for the heavier shock lancers, if you just give him a sword it would become too similar to the lonchophoroi. And here are some questions and ideas: *What happens with the current Peltastai model? *Why the Seleucids and Bactrians have Hetairoi Kataphraktoi which is a unit only available to the Bactrians according to Europa Barbarorum 1? *I see that you have made different skins for the Seleucid Toxotai, Sphendonetai and Akontistai. Do you intend to make different skins for the same unit for say each Hellenistic faction that has that unit? I think that would be just too much work and the result will be kind of confusing, that way you'll have too much diversity. The idea is to have units that are recognizable at a glance, having so much diversity can cause for example confusing the Seleucid Sphendonetai with say some Persian slingers. I suggest to have the same skin for all instances of the unit or maybe have few cultural groups like Macedon, Epiros, Pergamenes and other Northern Hellenistics use the current Toxotai skin, and the Seleucids, Bactrians and maybe Pontos use the current Seleucid skin, but having each faction with unique skin for each unit is madness to me :D *As I said, I prefer the design philosophy do be based on "cultural groups" rather than having absolutely every faction totally unique to the last unit. So here is another idea, to give the more "European" Hellenistics the current Hellenistic citizen model, and give the Ptolemaics, Seleucids and other "Asian" Hellenistics another asian type of skin which unites in itself the characteristics of all asian cultures (if you find the Egyptians to be too different maybe give only them completely unique one). Also for the Seleucids, give them the basic Hellenistic architecture style, but maybe have the lower tier buildings (like peasant dwellings, lumber mill, smelter, stable, siege factory, granary) use the egyptian model in order to reflect the lower Syrian class in Seleucid society. *Reduce slightly the size of the Trireme and have the Penteres use its current size. *Remove the Syrian archers from the Bosporan tree and replace them with some unique, heavy armored Skythian-Hellenistic archer like this, this, this and this. I think they are pretty cool with those shield on their back :D *When you begin work on the Bactrians consult with me, I have some ideas how to make their unique units different than the other Hellenistics. : Aaaand for last words, again, I would prefer to have as simple terminology as possible like Hoplites, Peltasts and so on in order to depict the Hellenistic warfare in some "basic" way. Having too complicated and specialized terminology is a little bit too much I think. There is no need to repeat the trend produced by mods like EB2, remember this is a unique project and it can develop in its own way :) Nanomat (talk) 15:15, September 12, 2015 (UTC)